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| Where in the world is Magog? |
In Christ, Sarah
Christian Archeologist Exonerates Russia in the End Times
Contact: Jeffrey Goodman Ph.D., 520-885-5874, jg@thecometsofgod.com; www.thecometsofgod.com
TUCSON, Az., Sept. 28, 2011 /Christian Newswire/ -- Christian archeologist Dr. Jeffrey Goodman in his book "THE COMETS OF GOD" pokes a big hole in the theory long held by most evangelical Christians that Russia will be one of the bad guys during the end times. Based on misconceptions about Russia's origins, many evangelicals believe Russia is to be the evil empire of Ezekiel 38-39 that is to attack Israel during the end times. Goodman says this error about Russia has the potential to create an international misunderstanding that could provoke unwarranted political action.
Most end times Bible prophecy authors have argued that Russia's origins trace back to the ancient nation of "Magog" of western Asia Minor, and that Magog was the ancient "tribal name" of the "Scythians." They wrongly believe the "Scythians," a group of nomadic tribes from Central Asia traveled across the Russian steppes, and came to live in the territory north of the Black Sea. The erroneous belief that Russia is Magog from Ezekiel 38/39 can be traced back to a small group of 18th and 19th century theologians who based their assertions on historical references that had been purposefully altered. These altered references include statements attributed to the Jewish historian Josephus, and the Roman historian Pliny. Within academia today, no professional archeologists or historians or serious Bible researchers associate Magog with the Scythians or the Scythians with the Russians. The truth is that modern scholars have unequivocally documented that a group of Scandinavian Viking traders called the Rus began the Russian state during the mid AD 800's, and gave their name to Russia.
So if Russia is not Magog of end times Bible prophecy, who is? Dr. Goodman says archeologists and historians know the correct identity of the nations of Ezekiel 38-39 based on the dealings these ancient nations had with the Assyrian Royal Court. Records of the ancient Assyrian Royal Court talk about these ancient nations the same way that the Bible does. Based on the Assyrian records, archeologists recognize the Bible's Gog as a historical militant king who indeed led a multinational force that included the nations of Mesheck and Tubal, as called for in Ezekiel 38-39. Gog of Magog means "Gog of the land of Gog" and the Assyrian records identify this land as Lydia of western Asia Minor. To the Greeks Gog was known as Gyges of Lydia.
Goodman says that since Gog, Lydia (Magog) and their confederates no longer exist, Ezekiel 38-39 uses them as "historical types" of those who are to be involved in the end times battle described in Ezekiel 38-39. As King David is used as a type of the Messiah, Gog is used as a type of the antichrist. The Bible says this battle is to take place in the mountains (Ezekiel 38:8, 21 and Ezekiel 39:2, 4, 17) where God fights for Israel and reveals Himself to Israel. Moreover, the Bible's books of Daniel and Revelation both indicate that a revived Roman Empire (in essence) will be involved in such a battle.
Dr. Goodman explains that there is a connection between ancient Lydia and ancient Rome. Historians know migrants from Lydia called the Etruscans took control of the population of central Italy and put them on the fast track to becoming the powerful Roman Empire. The Etruscans were responsible for the urbanization of Rome, as well as its army and its economic advancement. The Penguin Dictionary of Archeology says "the influence of the Etruscans on Roman civilization was enormous." In the Fifth century BC the famed Greek historian Herodotus told how the Etruscans came to Italy as a result of a migration from Lydia. From fancy pottery to oriental style burial tombs, the culture of Lydia was lifted and replanted in Tuscany, north of the city of Rome. As Gog's descendents became the Kings of Lydia, their Etruscan cousins became the monarchs or Kings of Rome, and they even used the word "Etruria" as a synonym for Italy.
The historical record shows a clear connection between Magog (an eponym for Lydia) and what the Bible says will be the final expression of Roman Empire, since an Etruscan last sat on the throne of Rome before it became a Republic, and the Etruscan right to rule traces back to Lydia.
For details and illustrations please go to FREE DOWNLOADS at www.thecometsofgod.com and see "Russia is Not Magog" and "Armageddon, Magog and the War of Ezekiel 38/39."
Dr. Goodmans article: http://www.thecometsofgod.com/dwnlds/appndx-b.pdf
Source: http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/9509017871.html
Other references:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06628a.htm
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0007_0_07466.html
Maps of Lydia:
http://0.tqn.com/d/ancienthistory/1/0/m/v/2/Lydia-Map-of-Asia-Minor-under-the-Greeks-and-Romans-.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Maps_of_Lydia
Modern day Europe & the Mediterranean region:
http://www.travel-europe.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/europe-map-travel-trip.gif
Posts
Sarah,
ReplyDeleteThis approach by Goodman is consistent with the exegesis of the two sequences in Dan 2 & Dan 7. With Imperial Rome being the 4th kingdom in the political sequence.
There are two sequences here:
#Political: (1)Babylon, (2) Medo-Persia, (3) Greece, (4) Rome.
#Religious: (1) Babylon, (2) Media, (3) Persia, (4) Greece.
Given the Selucid Greek Antiochus IV (Epiphanes) was the first prototype of the Anti-Christ (pace the Little Horn etc), it would appear that pursuant to Goodman's observations, his(Ma)Gog would be a synthesis of Greek and Roman Elements united in a confederation against Yahweh (Source, Son and Spirit) which was present in Yeshua's time and would return to centre-stage in the end times.
Russia would only be included as Ma(Gog) to the extent it embodies Byzantium (the Eastern Roman Empire - pace Romanides).
However, on this principle, so, too, would all nations embodying the Papacy (the Western Roman Empire), and by extension, all parts of Protestantism embodying Papal-Latin features be included in the (Ma)Gog.
One cannot affirm one without the other.
Rome's conversion to a republic did not alter the theological/political framework it inherited from the Etruscans: Governance-Principles: Top-down Autokrator with no check and balance from either below or a Biblical Prophet (pace Constantine), Constitutional/Legal Principles & Jurisprudence, Militarism - with the Army inter-alia operating as the civilian Police, etc.
This is just for starters.
I trust that this assists.
Hi Anamchara- thank you for your comment. Very enlightening. I have heard many times that there will be a revived Roman empire for the last days. Everyone thought that the EU was that embodiment. BUT - here is the other issue that I can't get a firm grasp of, it appears to me from Rev 20:7-10 that the war in Eze 38 is the same war and comes AFTER the return of Jesus and the 1000 years. Compare Eze 38:8 to Rev 20:9. I have a hard time with there being TWO wars of Gog and Magog, it does not make sense to me.
ReplyDeleteIn Christ, Sarah
Hmm..possibly. I have always thought it was a huge stretch to say Russia was Gog adn Magog all because there is some city there called Tabulisk or something. this morning though i heard a fascinating radio show on a fairly secualr radio station with a "Torah" expert saying that in fact it is Iran and Iraq combined and our invading of the latter has only helped to cement their alliance. From this will eventually come a nuclear war that will kill off 1/4 of humanity. not sure on that either. We shall see. Wouldn't it be ironic though if many right wing conservative christian voters so gung-ho for invading Iraq are actually, as this speaker said, to blame for the eventual suicide and destruction of the US?
ReplyDeleteWow! Sarah, this really upsets the proverbial apple cart. How many hundreds if not thousands of pages of Bible prophecy are on the shelves and for my entire life so called “Bible Experts” have said Russia is Gog and Magog. Very interesting if this scholar is in fact correct.
ReplyDeleteFor VJM: I don’t know how Iraq and Iran tie in with Russia or the revival of Ancient Rome, but I’ve heard from several sources that the greatest gift we Americans could have ever given Iran was invading Iraq. The Sunni Muslims (ruling elite class of Iraq) and the Shia Muslims (majority of Iraqis and Iran) have always hated each other. Now with the Sunni's losing their control it's now all quite interesting.. Praise God, God has it all in control.. It all plays out in accordance to His divine plan.
God bless you all.
Gog represents a "leader", a "supplier" not a nation. Gog "of" Magog, in a more modern translation = A supplier or leader of a confederation or group of nations or peoples. What nations (people) Magog, Rosh, Meshech, Tubal and Persia, Ethiopia and Libya will be with them. Gomer, the house of TOGARMAH FROM THE FAR NORTH, far north of what? Jerusalem. There is only one Nation or people to the "far" north of Israel and that is Russia and only Russia holds a Union or confederation of nations with all these nations in this Union. The leader or "Gog" of this confederation or Union is Putin or soon to be "official" leader.
ReplyDeleteAny mention of Rome or Europe is wrong they are considered west of Israel not North. Jerusalem is the center of all things and from there do you go N, S, E, W. Rome or even the EU is more West than it is North throughout history. In today's terms they are still referred to as the western nations, but that's a whole different story.
Revelation 20 is not the same as Ezekiel 38,39, similar but not the same. Gog "A Leader" and Magog and the nations in the four corners of the earth. Satan comes to deceive anyone and everyone of all nations and peoples and they gather together against "THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS AND OF THE BELOVED CITY.
Grace and Shalom to all !
Hello AWatchman4Him- thanks for your comment.
ReplyDeleteI believe Russia will absolutely be involved in any war that is upcoming. But we may be surprised as to who else is involved in this "confederation" who we may have thought was an ally. The ancient country of Lydia in Asia Minor is also to the north of Jerusalem. As Dr. Goodman states, those peoples settled in modern day Italy. I myself like to keep an open mind and never take a dogmatic stance to interpretation of prophecy.
God bless, Sarah
I want to add that I believe it should not be ignored that Gog was clearly identified by the Assyrian's as Gyges of Lydia. As well the Greeks knew Gog as Gyges of Lydia. How can one ignore that?
ReplyDeleteIt is also significant that we were told in scripture that the books would be unsealed and that knowledge would increase in our time. I believe that is happening and unfortunately those who have always held a certain belief may not be willing to let it go for whatever reason.
Seek the Lord and He will reveal the truth by His Spirit.
Hello Sarah,
ReplyDeleteI found your December 2nd comment perceptive when you say, “that Gog was clearly identified by the Assyrian’s as Gyges of Lydia.” Archeologists know that within the translated Assyrian cuneiform records there are references to all of the ancient nations listed in Ezekiel 38-39. Bible scholars now use these same Assyrian texts and related Babylonian texts to provide independent verification and edification of the Bible’s historical accounts from about 805 BC to 530 BC. For example, the Bible (Ezra 4:15, 19 and 5:17-6:7) tells how the Jews of the fifth century BC (538 BC–457 BC) overcame opposition by the local Persian governor to the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem by referring to these same Assyrian cuneiform court records. These Assyrian records show that Magog, Meshech, Tubal, and Togarmah (Ezekiel 38:5) were the nations that stretched across ancient Asia Minor that dealt with the Assyrian court. Gomer (Ezekiel 38:5) invaded Asia Minor by coming down from an area around the northeast shore of the Black Sea, and the militant leader called Gog led a confederacy of the above nations against invading Gomer.
I believe all those who responded to your blog were sincere and made some good points. But they would do well to read the link to Appendix B called “Russia is Not Magog” which you kindly included. This would give them the primary archeological evidence, linguistics, and Biblical scripture behind the press release. If truly interested, they could also read the free download “Armageddon, Magog and the War of Ezekiel 38/39” at: http://www.thecometsofgod.com/dwnlds/chap9.pdf
Some may be surprised to see how the Battle of Ezekiel 38/39 is one in the same as the Battle of Armageddon. The key to making this connection lies in determining what the words of Ezekiel 38/39 meant to the people of the time, and how some of the phrases used in Ezekiel 38/39 and Revelation 16:12-21 relate to real scientific phenomena. While everyone is entitled to their own opinions, everyone is not entitled to their own set of facts; and primary evidence trumps secondary evidence.
As for comparing Gog and Magog of Ezekiel 38/39 to Gog and Magog of Revelation 20:7-10, it should be understood that two different wars are being referred to and that the terms Gog and Magog are not being used literally but being used as historical types. The historical Gog and the nations of Magog, Meschek, and Tubal over which Gog was a “prince” as referred to in Ezekiel 38-39 serve as “historical types” of the antichrist and the multi-national confederacy over which the antichrist is to rule during the tribulation period. The antichrist and his empire will participate in the great end times Battle of Armageddon. The Bible uses the historical King Gog as a historical type of the antichrist to come in the exact same ways the Bible uses the historical King David as a type of Jesus the Christ’s Second Coming (Ezekiel 34:23 and Ezekiel 37:22-24). Similarly, Jesus uses Elijah as a historical type in Matthew 11:14 (also see Malachi 4:5) and Matthew 17:10-13 (“if you will receive it”).
In other words, “Gog and Magog” (in Akkadian “Magog” means the land of Gog) in their most basic meaning, are taken to be types or references to any “antichrist” and “the land of this antichrist”; just as I John 2:18, 22, 4:3, and II John 7 all make it clear that “there are many antichrists.”
Finally, certain things should be considered when using the Bible’s own point of view to evaluate an interpretation of a Bible prophecy. I have tried to adhere to the criteria listed at http://www.thecometsofgod.com/dwnlds/chap6_note_5.pdf in my work interpreting Bible prophecy.
________________
1. Ezekiel 38:17 gives added insight about Gog being a “type” of the antichrist when it asks, “Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old times by my servants the prophets of Israel..? (There are no passages where Russia is spoken about.)
Blessings,
Jeffrey Goodman
520-885-5874
jdgdt818@yahoo.com
Jeffrey-Thanks for your enlightening comment! One thing I know for sure I need more study on all of this. I plan to read your book with an open Bible. Thank you very much for the Kindle version! ( :
ReplyDeleteI want to throw some curve balls at you. One is that in my Bible study and by revelation of God's Holy Spirit I have come to see in scripture that Judah is the Jews (plus Benjamin) and Israel represents the other 10 tribes that were scattered into all the nations. (Amos 9:9 & others) The 2 kingdoms were split during Solomon’s reign. (1 Kings 11:11)
So when considering who is who in Bible prophecy, one must ascertain the difference between the house of Judah (Jews) the house of Israel (also known as the house of Ephraim.) And Jacob=which is all 12 tribes or All of Israel. So you see how important it is to understand who these people are and who is being spoken of and furthermore where they went? (Just like the Etruscans!)
I believe the 10 scattered tribes primarily became the Gentiles (Gen 48:19, Hos 1:10-11, James 1:1, John 7 33-35, Acts 26:6-7, 1 Peter 1:1 & others) as spoken of in scripture and that is why they (we) so fervently grasped the Gospel of Jesus Christ. (2 Sam 7:24, Deu 7:9)
All that said to make my point that we read in Eze 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
AND
Eze 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, 12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
Ezekiel says that the mountains of ISRAEL are attacked, but verses 11 and 12 in NO WAY describe the modern nation of Israel. Those verses more aptly describe the US.
Also refer to Zephaniah 2:7 which clearly sounds like it is describing the modern Jewish state and is clearly described as Judah.
Zep 2:7 And the coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; they shall feed thereupon: in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down in the evening: for the LORD their God shall visit them, and turn away their captivity.
So do you see what I am trying to say here? Who really are these people (nations) that will be attacked?
God bless and thanks for commenting!
Sarah
Sarah, you said: "it appears to me from Rev 20:7-10 that the war in Eze 38 is the same war and comes AFTER the return of Jesus and the 1000 years. Compare Eze 38:8 to Rev 20:9. I have a hard time with there being TWO wars of Gog and Magog, it does not make sense to me."
ReplyDeleteI just want to tell you that you are absolutely right. They are the same war and this war does occur after the "thousand years". The war is actually referenced three times in the book of Revelation alone. Revelation 16:12-16, Revelation 19:19 and Revelation 20:7-10.
However it all takes place before Jesus' return, not after. But it will all happen soon because we are currently living in the period of time referred to as "the thousand years" (which is not really a thousand literal years).
Hi Anonymous- Thanks for your comment. I have gone back and forth on that but found that scripture seems to support a literal peaceful 1000 years, and certainly nothing about the last 1000 years could be described as peaceful.
ReplyDeleteLook at this-
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
So if Satan has been bound for a thousand years, then who is deceiving the nations?
And there is much more that does not jive with us being in the 1000 years right now.
I will try to post those scriptures later.
Thanks!